(Don Quixote is entirely a hero - and is recognised as such at the end of
the novel when he hangs up his spurs and everyone tells him that he must
continue... But his heroism is of a nature not intended by him, the heroism
that he had wanted to achieve always in fact eluding him.)

On Thu, Dec 20, 2012 at 3:29 PM, Frank, Michael <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> i'm delighted that my student's very innocent question has precipitated
> such an interesting and multi faceted response
>
>
>
> one observation that comes from the very innocence of my student's
> original perspective :  it may be important to distinguish between
> incompetent protagonists [the model being, i suspect, Don Q.] and
> incompetent characters who are still authentic heroes [the paradigm for
> "hero" would likely be odysseus];  in other words - actually my student's
> words - incompetent guys who nevertheless "save the day" . . . [this would,
> i think, eliminate for starters almost all the coen brothers examples]
>
>
>
> of course we'd need to re-examine what, in the contemporary world, counts
> as "saving the day" - a different but not unrelated question
>
>
>
> mike
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Film and TV Studies Discussion List [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> On Behalf Of William Brown
> Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2012 7:12 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [SCREEN-L] the incompetent hero
>
>
>
> It may well be a genre convention of comedy, but I am suggesting that it is
>
> not limited to comedy. War and Peace predates cinema and it is not a
>
> comedy. Schatz is a bit cinema-centric in his thinking if it is he who
>
> argued this.
>
>
>
> On Tue, Dec 18, 2012 at 6:29 PM, godard <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
>
>
> >     the incompetent (male) hero is a genre convention of comedy, in fact.
>
> > the ones who initiate the "groundbreaking antihero revolution" (i think
>
> > it's schatz, but i am recalling from memory here) are laurel & hardy.
>
> >
>
> >    gloria monti
>
> >
>
> > On Mon, Dec 17, 2012 at 7:09 AM, William Brown <[log in to unmask]>
>
> > wrote:
>
> >
>
> > > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>
> > > -----------------------
>
> > > Sender:       Film and TV Studies Discussion List <
>
> > > [log in to unmask]>
>
> > > Poster:       William Brown <[log in to unmask]>
>
> > > Subject:      Re: QUERY: the incompetent hero
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> >
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> > >
>
> > > It is interesting that everyone has reached for comedy... I wonder
>
> > whether
>
> > > the student has been thinking about non-superhero superheroes - as per
>
> > > films like Kick-Ass, Special (Specioprin Hydrochloride), and Super...
>
> > Which
>
> > > are comedies of sorts, but also not really...
>
> > >
>
> > > For what I wonder is whether an incompetent hero might not be much more
>
> > > regular beyond the specialised lampooning of heroism that most of these
>
> > > comedies involve... Chaplin, Keaton, Tati, Sellers: each incompetent is
>
> > in
>
> > > fact remarkably talented - physically above all.
>
> > >
>
> > > So the film that comes to mind for me is, perhaps surprisingly for some
>
> > > people, Goldfinger. Whereas 21st century Bond can do parkour,
> somersaults
>
> > > and superhuman jumping, in Goldfinger (and many early Bonds in general
> -
>
> > > particularly the Roger Moore films), Bond can do nothing. He's got no
>
> > idea
>
> > > what's going on, he keeps fluffing up his invistigations, getting
>
> > captured
>
> > > - and he is each time rescued by others and barely manages to get out
> of
>
> > > any of the scapes himself (electrocuting Oddjob perhaps aside). Here we
>
> > > have a hero who is a bit incompetent, basically - and who never quite
>
> > works
>
> > > out what he's supposed to be doing...
>
> > >
>
> > > So while incompetent heroes are often comic - the Don Quixote
> tradition -
>
> > > they often are not. And their incompetence can have disastrous
>
> > consequences
>
> > > - the tradition for me here would be someone like Pierre Bezukhov in
>
> > > Tolstoy's War and Peace, who attempts to liberate his serfs but
> basically
>
> > > messes it up and arguably causes more harm than good...
>
> > >
>
> > > Anyone else think of any incompetent heroes that are not necessarily
>
> > comic,
>
> > > then?
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > --
>
> > gloria monti, ph.d.
>
> > assistant professor
>
> > radio-TV-film
>
> > CSUF, fullerton, CA
>
> > [log in to unmask]
>
> > _____________________________
>
> >
>
> > ----
>
> > Learn to speak like a film/TV professor! Listen to the ScreenLex
>
> > podcast:
>
> > http://www.screenlex.org
>
> >
>
>
>
> ----
>
> Screen-L is sponsored by the Telecommunication & Film Dept., the
>
> University of Alabama: http://www.tcf.ua.edu
>
> ----
> Screen-L is sponsored by the Telecommunication & Film Dept., the
> University of Alabama: http://www.tcf.ua.edu
>

----
Online resources for film/TV studies may be found at ScreenSite
http://www.ScreenSite.org