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December 1996, Week 2


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Peggi Weaver <[log in to unmask]>
Reply To:
Tue, 10 Dec 1996 22:22:01 -0300
text/plain (111 lines)
Taking the position against dubbing there is nothing worse than bad vice
 casting.  I see this
on TV all the time, also you get to know the voices and they don't correspond to
 the same face.
But getting back to the original question I never experiened the idea of a film
 being subtitled
as being silent, but then the majority of the films where I live have subtitles.
  I also have
to confess that I haven't seen Toyiko Story either, so I have question - does a
language (when a person isn't accustommed to hearing it) blend in to the
 background - ie. with
the music.  Metropolis is an example of a silent film that on video now has a
 music score
attached.  If so Japanese is a musical language and possibly the student became
 confused.  The
voices of the actors are part of the joy for me and if I like the film I'd
 prefer to see it
again and again to enjoy the visuals along with any dialogue I may have missed
 at first
reading/viewing.  This is of course the same I would give a film in my first
P weaver
Meredith McMinn wrote:
> The one argument in favor of dubbing is also an argument against, or,
> more accurately, making the point of the original post.  The actor's
> voice is as much a part of the performance and thus of the  film as any
> other single element.  No two actors sound exactly alike and certainly
> English sounds quite different from other languages.  Unfortunately,
> watching films in an unfamiliar language is always going to involve some
> loss (or is it enhancement, at times?) in the translation.
> The one good argument in favor of dubbing, in my opinion, is that it
> gives American voice-over actors work.  Thus, I am in favor of it...if I
> get the job! :-)
> Meredith
> On Thu, 5 Dec 1996, Evan Cameron wrote:
> > Let me second Jesse Kalin's remark that the strange effect of switching
> > one's attention from perceiving to reading, which subtitles requires,
> > deserves more attention that it has been given, and is indeed, in my
> > experience and judgment, the sole and perhaps decisive argument in favour
> > of dubbing.  It is unfortunate that most North Americans have no awareness
> > of how well and effectively dubbing can be done, though most Europeans who
> > lived through the last era of cross-country exchanges of good films
> > (1955-1970) will not forget it, especially when confronted with the
> > computerized garbage rushed into place nowadays.  The impact of
> > Tarkovsky's long takes when well-dubbed, for example, compared to the
> > constant interruption of them required when reading subtitles, has
> > perhaps to be experienced to be believed.
> >
> > It is equally unfortunate that no one has bothered to study the most
> > notable other effect of reading subtitles.  I well recall how intellectual
> > the babblings of the drunken guests at Fellini's party in EIGHT-AND-A-HALF
> > seemed to those of us compelled to read the lines via subtitles when it
> > appeared (is read like an existentialist tract); and how astonished we
> > were to learn that our Italian counterparts considered ASPHALT JUNGLE to
> > be equally intellectual when its dialogue was filtered through the act of
> > reading, compared to the debased level of communication they found in
> > their own indigenous productions (their masterpieces, by our 'reading').
> >
> >
> > Evan William Cameron                            Telephone: 416-736-5149
> > York University - CFT 216 (Film)                Fax:       416-736-5710
> > 4700 Keele Street                               E-mail:    [log in to unmask]
> > North York, Ontario
> > Canada  M3J 1P3
> > On Thu, 5 Dec 1996, Jesse Kalin wrote:
> >
> > > I find this response by students as strange and puzzeling as Don.  I have
> > > never encountered it, even in "first" film courses, though I can quite
> > > imagine that students come to "block out" the (language) sound through
> > > their focus on reading.  (This actually is an argument for dubbing, though
> > > that's another issue.)  I have used Japanese films extensively, especially
> > > Ozu and "Tokyo Story", and a wide range of films other than Kurosawa.  I
> > > have always encouraged them to listen to the Japanese and begin to connect
> > > it (inflection, tone, etc.) with facial expression, bodily comportment,
> > > the information given in subtitles.  (They have also been encouraged to
> > > the films twice, though most don't, except in response to a specific
> > > assignment or for a term paper.)
> > >
> > > But film is also a strange beast, living as much in our imaginations (and
> > > constructed memories, ie., as retold stories--modified, amplified,
> > > embellished, etc.
> > >
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