peter warren's comments [which follow below] about older and newer femmes fatales raises an interesting question, one that may have ramifications far beyond issues of "noir" . . . are the changes cited by peter changes in narration or changes in diegesis? . . . that is, are we to understand that these noir women did the same things in the films of the forties that they do in contemporary films, and that just the *representation* of those things has, for a variety or reasons including the demise of the code, changed . . . or does this change in the system of representation speak of some broader [or deeper] change so that we are to understand the kathleen turner character in BODY HEAT to have behaved quite differently from phyllis dietrichson in DOUBLE INDEMNITY? . . . my own inclination is to see the change as largely in the representation, but to the extent that the medium is -or shapes- the message such changes can't be written off so easily . . . any thoughts??? mike frank (Embedded image moved to file: pic29331.pcx) Well, a femme fatale is a femme fatale - sex and duplicity....... In the heyday of classic film noir, roughly from the mid forties to the mid fifties, the Hollywood Production Code was very much in effect, so sexual activity was suggested rather than shown. This translated into loaded dialogue, double entendres, the cigarette smoking ritual, and a few chaste kisses. Also, before "womens lib" came along, a femme fatale usually had to hook on to a man to carry out her nefarious schemes (eg: The Maltese Falcon: Double Indemnity: Out Of The Past; The Postman Always Rings Twice). With modern film noir, a femme fatale often operates more independently (eg: The Grifters), and sexual activity is graphically shown rather than hinted at. For instance, compare the seduction scene in the 1946 and the 1981 versions of The Postman Always Rings Twice. Also, femme fatales can get away with a much higher level of violence (and profanity) in modern film noir than they could in the classic period, following the general trend in film and other popular entertainment, and the demise of the Production Code in the late sixties. I hope these few brief remarks will be of assistance. Peter Warren ----------