mike frank asks: "would it be possible to get, from the writer or others on the list, examples of the kind of "visual trickery" that is used in "nearly all film story-telling" . . . . . . for my part, what i THINK i'm concerned with is the extent to which the camera in a film (or editing, or cinematography, or mise-en-scene. . . that is, all the things that the film-maker controls to shape the finished work) must be theorized as similar to the language in a novel, and thus equally subject to fallibility" Examples: flatness (2-D) of image black and white (when used) color that depends on the quality of the film stock and processing distortion by non-"normal" lenses delimiting the field of vision to a rectangular frame selecting one particular angle (or set of angles) to view the object from camera movement --and that's not even taking into considertion manipulations of the mise-en- scene, editing, and sound! But this is only by the thinnest analogies "similar to the language in a novel". Maybe a better way to put it would be to say that *any* attempt to convey some aspect of narrative (to confine ourselves for now just to narrative cases) inevitably abstracts the "reality" it purports to represent. Of course, the mainstream of film (like the mainstream of literature) either tries to efface that abstraction or has built a system of cues and conventions that audiences take for granted and overlook. It might be useful to go back to Rudolf Arnheim's FILM AS ART, which tries to make a case for the *advantages* of film's inevitable abstracting capabilities. Don Larsson, Mankato State U (MN) ---- To signoff SCREEN-L, e-mail [log in to unmask] and put SIGNOFF SCREEN-L in the message. Problems? Contact [log in to unmask]