Some of the debate here might be clarified with reference to Charles Barr's seminal article on English critics' response to STRAW DOGS and A CLOCKWORK ORANGE, in Screen, Summer 1972. Barr makes the case against Clockwork Orange because Kubrik delberately distances the viewer from the violence; Straw Dogs is better, because we as audience, are implicated in the violence and are forced into an uncomfortable proximity with it. I agree. ORANGE is a poor film because in the end we want Alex to resume his thuggery if only because the treatment is so dreadful and inhuman; Peckinpah is far more ambiguous about violence, admitting some exultation in it, but also showing us the awful consequences. As for adopting the treatment techniques shown in ORANGE for real, it makes me ashamed to subscribe to the same list as some of these people. J.J.Jacobs Department of Film and Television Studies University of Warwick U.K. ---- To signoff SCREEN-L, e-mail [log in to unmask] and put SIGNOFF SCREEN-L in the message. Problems? Contact [log in to unmask]