----------------------------Original message---------------------------- In some of the reference works I've studied in film classes, some critics argue that, by its very nature, any cartoon is self- referential because it clearly and visually "shows" itself as being created and thus nonrealistic. "Duck Amuck" is one of the examples that were used by several of the critics that discussed self- referential material. Others chose films that deliberately mixed realistic characters (live actors) with animation, like "Who Framed Roger Rabbit" and some of the Disney cartoons, which they believed "showed" the cartoons as "works" created by others by being contrasted on the screen with live "realistic" actors and in "realistic" live settings. However, a person could take this the next step forward, and say that all film is by its own nature self-referential. A zoom in, a pan, a special effect, any added or deliberately chosen film action "shows" to the audience that what is being watched is a creation, and not realistic, even a documentary about events that have really occurred. Doug Simpson