Hi. Back in July I asked for discussion of "self-conscious punk" films. As Mike Breiner recognized, my reading of QUADROPHENIA, which I took as my starting point, is heavily influenced by Hebdige. I take Hebdige as an authority; as I remember his analysis, the Mods were forerunners of punk, i.e., there is no "mods/rockers=punks equation." If Mike Breiner is still reading SCREEN-L, perhaps he could elaborate upon why the mods- lead-into-punks continuum is problematic. John Izod asks why EDUCATING RITA can be described as a film "in which Hollywood coopts punk," wince it's an English film, and he wistfully concludes that "we old colonizers are getting used to our new lives as the colonised." I don't remember the production history for EDUCATING RITA, but it is based on an English play featuring English characters in an English setting. I nonetheless take the liberty of referring to it as a Hollywood film because it follows the pattern of Hollywood-style filmmaking and expresses a Hollywood-identified ideology. (This argument for lumping together as Hollywood films many that weren't actually produced by (the geographically specific) Hollywood appears in some authoritative text or another and has been made, unchallenged, at various conferences--i.e., it seems like a truism to me by now, although I wish I could cite the reference.) Particularly, EDUCATING RITA expresses "the American dream" (itself arguably not--no longer--the exclusive property of the States), in which the exceptional individual overcomes obstacles to achieve social and/or financial/professional success. I see a continuum of sorts here because QUADROPHENIA, in which the punk insignia function integrally both to tell the story and as a part of the story, doesn't analyze solely in terms of the individual, but instead considers aspects of social structure as determining factors. In contrast, the punk insignia of EDUCATING RITA could be replaced by any other marker that serves to differentiate Rita at the film's beginning from the standard that she encounters on campus and that she will meet by film's end. In both films, clothes, work, living situations, etc., serve to distinguish characters, but there is a difference--the degree of specificity, the extent to which that specificity is integral to the story. I asked for suggestions for film titles that might carry the continuum further in the direction of self-consciousness because I'm interested in the question of audience address. For that reason I especially like Jonathan LeBreton's suggestion of DESPERATELY SEEKING SUSAN, because the subcultural signifiers clearly distinguish characters from each other while simultaneously placing them in class or subcultural terms relative to each other--and they do so without requiring much preliminary acquaintance with the subculture in question. (I don't think the punk and music connection is sufficient to establish the subcultural differences I see evoked by either QUADROPHENIA or EDUCATING RITA.) Merlin D. Mann sic (!?) suggests that punk "images have been nothing *but* co-opted into standard Hollywood fare." I'm not sure I agree, but then Mr. Mann provides a hedge: "depending on how you define punk." Again, I accept Hebdige's analysis as authoritative: Subcultural signifiers identifying and distinguishing punks or mods or rockers have meaning apart from their presence as signifiers. Punk seems to rely on the visual; punk seems to speak through the visual. So it seems "natural" that Hollywood (i.e., commercial film production) would appropriate punk, as a novel visual language that can be used to express the old messages. Anyway, my thanks to you all for your suggestions and comments. Surprisingly, my very hip local video stores does not carry Spheeris' DECLINE OF WESTERN CIVILIZATION, but I finally stopped procrastinating and have now seen SUBURBIA and THE BOYS NEXT DOOR (these two films could prompt another line of discussion--why do women filmmakers explore the world of male violence, is their exploration different from male-produced films on violence, etc.?). Finally, my congratulations to Chris Golya, whose correction of the misidentified Harley-Davidson in THE WILD ONE provided the old colonizers' "Triumph" over the colonised. Harriet Margolis ([log in to unmask])