I don't think Turnitin does still require such a database. It finds the phrases on the internet and locates the source (web site) for you. I got my access free from Prentice Hall, but alas they have terminated the offer. ----- Original Message ----- From: Larsson, Donald F To: [log in to unmask] Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2004 11:34 AM Subject: Re: [SCREEN-L] Cheating and Student Papers This whole issue came up for discussion last year on the ADE Chairs list. While some reported that they were happy with subscribing to Turnitin.com or other services, most did not seem to think it was worth the money. A simple phrase search on Google (just put the suspect words in quotation marks) usually did the trick. I don't know how Respondus works, but Turnitin requires a database of bogus papers, which itself raises a variety of legal issues (data privacy on the one hand and students' "ownership" of their work on the other, just for starters). As Jeremy suggests, the kind of stuff peddled for purchase on the papermill sites can be pretty obvious, and as Deb suggests, customizing the assignments can make it difficult or impossible to apply any of that stuff in a non-obvious way. Deb also points out that students usually need to be educated about quality of sources and the rules of citation. Many of us have found that some international students come from cultures where our concepts of "cheating" and of "intellectual property" can be tenuous, but domestic students can have their own notions of what makes a paper "sound good" that may not be directly linked to a desire to get around someone. Of course, the truly dedicated student will always find a way (or almost). A few years ago, I had one student who submitted a composition assignment that I was sure was plagiarized, but I couldn't find a source on the internet or in our own library. Finally, after 3 hours in the stacks at the University of Minnesota, I came across an obscure book in French with English translations on the facing pages--his paper, word for word. I took this one through our somewhat cumbersome judicial process (better than Leo's situation but still probably enough to set his teeth on edge) and was gratified that he seemed to get his comeuppance. Don Larsson -------------------------------------------- "Only connect." --EM Forster Donald F. Larsson English Department Armstrong Hall 230 Minnesota State University Mankato, MN [log in to unmask] Phone: 507-389-5501 -----Original Message----- From: Film and TV Studies Discussion List [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Darrell Newton Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2004 9:39 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [SCREEN-L] Cheating and Student Papers Has anyone out there used, or witnessed a demo of Respondus? It uses a specific kind of search program that compares with student papers with sites on the 'net. Hypothetically, one would load a student paper into it (preferably from WebCT or Blackboard) and let it rout out striking similarities in syntax and wording. The results are astounding. Our campus is considering buying it... Darrell M. Newton, Ph.D. Assistant Professor, The Department of Communication and Theater Arts Salisbury University 290 Holloway Hall Salisbury, MD 21801 (410) 677-5060 Office (410) 543-6229 Department http://faculty.salisbury.edu/~dmnewton/ >>> [log in to unmask] 08/29/04 08:23 AM >>> As Ph.D. student in film an English Dept., I teach more composition sections than film classes, but I've found that students have a real problem understanding what is public knowledge and what should be cited. I've had few that borrow more than what they feel is "public knowledge" but the concept of "public" gets in the way. Many students think that information on the Internet is "public" and I have had some that thought that copying from IMDB or a book jacket was okay because it is, of course, public on the net or on a glossy (sell the book) jacket. All I was asking for was a paper proposal but I had someone plagarize. That was disconcerting and enlightening. The lines between promotion and ideas can get lost in the hype to sell a book, or film, or any other commodity. There's a postmodern moment there or at least a Sontag pause for reflection. The best defense against borrowing from the Internet paper mills is, obviously, to customize assignments and simply to ask for copies of the sources they have consulted. This can help. The most enlightening experience for me was to require a look at critical works and to realize that Siskel was the epitome of a "critical" film writer. There is much to be taught and we can do well at this task but each asignment must be our own. Ciao, Deb ---- To sign off Screen-L, e-mail [log in to unmask] and put SIGNOFF Screen-L in the message. Problems? Contact [log in to unmask] ---- Screen-L is sponsored by the Telecommunication & Film Dept., the University of Alabama: http://www.tcf.ua.edu ---- Screen-L is sponsored by the Telecommunication & Film Dept., the University of Alabama: http://www.tcf.ua.edu ---- Screen-L is sponsored by the Telecommunication & Film Dept., the University of Alabama: http://www.tcf.ua.edu