And another thing ... Peter Greenway made the astute observation that, if film aspired to the status of the other major arts (literature especially), why should any complex, multi-levelled filmic text be absolutely comprehensible in one viewing? If you read and re-read Joyce and Dostoevsky, discovering new insights, more depths etc on each return to the text .... why shouldn't a film aspire to the same level of complexity? And hence: necessitate the same level of 'reading' ? And please note: what you are calling "incomprehensible" is, especially in the films being discussed here, more frequently "complexity" or "ambiguity". Which is NOT the same thing at all. You should read Sven Birkerts' The Gutenberg Elegies. It is primarily about the demise of literacy in the print media. But many of his observations seem profoundly true of visual literacy also. We keep getting told that today's generation of non-readers (a generalisation, I know, but strikes me as a plausible characterisation) are just literate in a new way - they're visually literate. But then you keep hearing about how film or television texts that stretch the conventions one iota (convoluted narrative styles, profound existential subtext, allusive or open closures, symbolic imagery etc) are incomprehensible, unfathomable. That The Matrix (for e.g.) is just sill sci-fi stuff that 'makes no sense' ... just get into the special effects. So: Visually literate ? I seriously doubt it. [log in to unmask] ----- Original Message ----- From: "jane mills" <[log in to unmask]> To: <[log in to unmask]> Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2002 5:21 PM Subject: Understanding the plot Understanding the plot. Apologies for cross-listing Un chien Andalou, The Big Sleep, Seven, The Usual Suspects, The Matrix, Velvet Goldmine, Gummo, Mulholland Drive – all films that have incoherent or, to some, incomprehensible plots and storylines. (For some reason I am always completely baffled by films about counter espionage.) Does it matter? Do we need to understand the plot of a movie to enjoy it? Could you let me know more titles of incomprehensible films, any academic articles on the subject , and your views on the subject? Jane Mills Honorary Associate, The University of Sydney; Senior Research Associate, Australian Film,Television & Radio School 27 Dudley Street, Bondi, 2026 Tel: 9300 8836 [log in to unmask] ---- Screen-L is sponsored by the Telecommunication & Film Dept., the University of Alabama: http://www.tcf.ua.edu ---- Screen-L is sponsored by the Telecommunication & Film Dept., the University of Alabama: http://www.tcf.ua.edu