>> Far from being repellant films like >>Bonnie & Clyde, The Godfather, MASH, >>Catch-22 and The Dirty Dozen were big >>hits. lang is clearly right, and my wishful attempt to find some bit of silver lining in all these clouds seems futile . . . still, could one reasonably claim that the violence in those films [i'm thinking especially of the violence in CATCH-22--both movie and book] DID feel awful and repellant, even if the films them- selves were successful? . . . to put it differently, could one argue that the violence in those films aimed at playing a role in a rhetoric of anti- violence, unlike the violence of schwarzenneger, stallone, bronson, van damme, et. al. which is meant to be enjoyed, celebrated and applauded? i'm not sure about this, and i guess that DIRTY DOZEN shoots that theory in the foot [or in the head] cause as i remeber it all these years later it hardly harbored a pacifist sensibility [as CATCH- 22 in fact did] what do people think?? mike ---- For past messages, visit the Screen-L Archives: http://bama.ua.edu/archives/screen-l.html